From: Kenneth R. van Wyk (The Moderator) Errors-To: LUKEN@IBM1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU To: VIRUS-L@IBM1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU BCC: VIRUS-L@IBM1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU Subject: VIRUS-L Digest V1 #12 Reply-to: VIRUS-L@IBM1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU --text follows this line-- VIRUS-L Digest Thursday, 17 Nov 1988 Volume 1 : Issue 12 Today's Topics: Re: [STMONTG@PUCC: Ye Compleat Vyrusse] Domesticating "evil" hackers. Re: Military Systems Re: FluShot+ versions --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Nov 88 11:00:17 EST From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: [STMONTG@PUCC: Ye Compleat Vyrusse] >From: Sean T Montgomery >Subject: Ye Compleat Vyrusse >I'm only a recent subscriber, so please bear with me if this has been >discussed into the ground. I would be interested in receiving as >complete a list as possible of microcomputer (preferably Macintosh) >"anti-viral" programs, and/or a list of servers or persons who have >these programs available thru E-mail. I would like to have a copy for >my own sake, and also for sending to people who show up on one net or >another saying "Help!!! I've got a virus!!! What do I do!!!" Case in >point: nVIR can be removed a number of ways, some simpler than others >(the KillVirus INIT seems to beat everything else). I'd like to find >out what other virus killers/protectors are best for other situations. Sean, I've compiled such a list as a HyperCard stack. I have been planning to convert it into an article for Computers and Security, but... Anyway, the stack lists all of the software which I've been able to get hold of for evaluation. It does NOT include KillVirus, because I haven't been able to get a copy so far. It does, however, give a short review of each program (along with a longer one, if you want it) and a description of the viruses I've been able to confirm so far. It includes hand-removal instructions for each of the viruses, along with my recommendations based on the software I've seen. The software itself is available from LISTSERV at SCFVM. You may either order the whole package, or selected pieces. TELL LISTSERV AT SCFVM INDEX PUBLIC for a list of files. Please, if you can, send me KillVirus so I can add it to my stack and to our server. I've just gotten the latest release of ResEdit and will probably be adding it to the distribution later this week. If you can get me KillVirus, I'll put it into the same distribution. - --- Joe M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Nov 88 19:06 EST From: Robert Stratton Subject: Domesticating "evil" hackers. Hello all, Just my two cents, and as I like the (normally) non-flaming nature of this list, I'll try to keep it brief. SET /FLAME=ON [Ed. I'd hesitate to calling this a flame; rather, it's a heated discussion... Flames, of course, are strongly discouraged on VIRUS-L. Anyone feeling the uncontrollable urge to flame should send his/her flame to the author of the culprit message, please.] One major point that I rarely hear discussion on regards the fact that many of these "nether" hackers are simply champing at the bit for an opportunity to do *any* sort of productive work in the industry. Now this is by no means all of them, but I have seen several people who were just starting to turn toward possibly destructive hacking endeavors who made radical changes in behavior and attitude when given a chance to participate in a professional capacity. I think it is unwise to automatically assume that if we were to (God forbid) offer employment to all of these people our "destructive hacker" problems would be solved. On the contrary, many statistics indicate that the majority of computer fraud incidents are currently and have always been perpetrated from within organizations. My point is simply that it is also unwise to ignore the fact that some of these urchins (age notwithstanding) are highly motivated individuals who merely need a professionally creative outlet. Let's face it, there are a significant number of people in D.P. or C.S. who have no real love for it, and have fallen into the "money/marketability" trap as originally defined the medical and legal professions. (No offense intended.) In my experience, it is also a risk, although of another sort, to employ people with zero enthusiasm for the work they are doing. I place a great value on enthusiasm, because people with enthusiasm and some discipline can and will learn whatever else they need to, be it standards or practices. (Yes, "ethics" fit in there somewhere.) SET /FLAME=OFF Probably the most dangerous aspects of the RTM situation are the attempted (?) suppression of information by federal authorities as well as the media hype/public paranoia that have been generated. I remember well the panic/fascination in the public after the _War Games_ "phase". As if we don't have enough difficulty creating trust in our "users" already!!! I would welcome mail discussing this, if the list begins to diverge much farther from its primary purpose, and people still want to talk about it. Bob Stratton Info. Systems Consultant Stratton Systems Design ------------------------------ Date: 16 Nov 88 19:55:00 EST From: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Military Systems Most military applications are standalone products that have no interaction with the rest of the world, so the possibility of the system being affected by a virus is minimal. The systems that the military use are not perfect, but they have to be pretty close before they become operational. As was mentioned, drills and simulations are used extensively to test the reliability of the software/hardware. Quick example. When they first came out with the F-16 they discovered a bug in one of the simulators, the plane inverted when it flew over the equator. When they compared the code, the same bug was found in the actually planes. The same bug was found and corrected in the real planes. CP6-Mail: Michael Brown @CMR NET-Mail: Michael Brown Snail-Mail: Service Informatique CMR, St-Jean, Que. J0J 1R0 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Nov 88 10:09:06 SET From: "Christian J. Reichetzeder" Subject: Re: FluShot+ versions How about making the latest (or only recommended) version available on the VIRUS-L FILELIST ? Christian [Ed. That's the plan - as soon as I can get around to doing it. Placing files on a LISTSERV filelist is no simple task (oh, I wish everyone could anonymous FTP...); there's not enough space to place sufficient comments about the file(s), and the commands to actually put a file up are somewhat, er, cryptic. Removing an existing file on a filelist is worse. Also, it's been reported that some people are having problems uudecoding the files on our LISTSERV - apparently the EBCDIC (sp?) character set doesn't include all the ASCII characters that are used in UUENCODED format files. If that's the case, then that's yet another problem to deal with. Comments/suggestions are welcomed.] ------------------------------ End of VIRUS-L Digest *********************